Club Meetings via Videoconference

[Franke07]

Let me start by congratulating the team on coming up with this solution. It's a great way of hosting this particular event.
Our dept ran a sizeable homeworking operation alongside traditional office based operations, VC was always one of the challenging aspects of support as we had to integrate webcams with corporate VC units. From our experiences of delivering these services it was never straight forward, ease of use and reliability were always a challenge. The market place has matured somewhat and the browser based technologies have come on in leaps and bounds and have addressed these two respects to the point that users with very little IT knowledge can install and use them.

I would agree with Mike in this case that using a commercial service such as Zoom is the way to go if we are to get this to work. Zoom is a push to go service like Skype it's free for one to one.

I understand Peter's concern about giving out data, if you are not presenting/hosting but just want to join meetings all you need to give them is your email address and you can limit what they can do with it subject to their T&Cs.

Mike is right regarding the rights aspect, any software integration will require you to provide credentials to allow the application to access and read/update the other manufacturer's application. Whether this be Microsoft or Google calendar, it's the price you pay for a seamless experience - but you don't have to go down that road if you are not comfortable ( like you Peter it's not something I feel is necessary.) and the app will work happily without said permission. You just don't get the bells and whistle.

I am happy to use Zoom it is straight forward to use and it works.

Hope others will feel the same!

[Mike Farley]

I understand Peter's concern about giving out data, if you are not presenting/hosting but just want to join meetings all you need to give them is your email address and you can limit what they can do with it subject to their T&Cs.

Mike is right regarding the rights aspect, any software integration will require you to provide credentials to allow the application to access and read/update the other manufacturer's application. Whether this be Microsoft or Google calendar, it's the price you pay for a seamless experience - but you don't have to go down that road if you are not comfortable ( like you Peter it's not something I feel is necessary.) and the app will work happily without said permission. You just don't get the bells and whistle.!

Thanks for your observations, Frank, and appreciation of our efforts to get this up and running. Covid-19 has been the cause a lot of work for a few of us which is still ongoing, first in cancelling existing meetings and then setting up alternatives. Many clubs appear to be shutting down completely, at least until the end of the summer, which means that we are in the vanguard in using this technology for our meetings. I know of only one other club which plans to use it, but there will undoubtedly be a few others. It is very much an experiment and I will be seeking feedback afterwards. While I hope that it will be successful, I suspect there will inevitably be some aspects which we can improve.

Given the nature of most club meetings, we have the potential to do a lot with this technology. We mainly either have competitions or lectures and the audience is largely passive. True, print competitions are not viable nor are practical evenings for obvious reasons. Even before Boris Johnson announced the country wide semi-lockdown last night, the logistics for collecting prints, taking them to the judge for scoring and then returning them to the authors looked difficult. After next week's meeting, we will be investigating what else our club can do to keep our activities going.

Many devices these days have webcams and microphones built in. These tend to be laptops, tablets and smartphones. Software developers have ensured that no technical knowledge is necessary to use them and have done most of the heavy lifting. It is a commercial necessity as much as anything. A product which is not easy to use will not succeed. It should also be possible to view a meeting from a computer, most likely a desktop, which does not have a webcam. The downside is that it will not be possible to participate actively but, as stated above, that is not a significant drawback for those not involved in running a meeting.

The invitation to participate in meetings will be sent via e-mail and by default we will use the address which members have notified to the club. If anyone has privacy concerns, it is simple enough to create an e-mail address for the purpose. Just let me know what it is and we will use that. All club members have my e-mail address as I use it for sending out newsletters. Alternatively, you can send me an e-mail via the forum or use a PM. (Note that you will need to be logged in to use this facility.)

[Peter Boughton]

I very much doubt that Zoom is using data from Google for anything other than the stated purposes. That is a sure route to defending an expensive class action in the litigious US.

The intent of a company doesn't stop mistakes from happening. Security involves limiting the potential impact of mistakes, and everyone has a choice of where their line of convenience/risk is. Mine involves never sharing account details.

It is possible to use Zoom solely via a browser without installing the add-on...

That's good to hear - since it can work in that manner then it's a viable option, and I will attempt to use it.
(It appears Firefox is supported fine, other than for microphone use which is only necessary for presenting.)

[Iggy]

In email, sent: 20 March 2020 18:50, Mike Farley said:
The print competitions are less easy.
Collecting prints and sending them to judges is a logistical impracticality, so we will combine the last two rounds into a single event early in the new season which is due to start in September.
Similarly, we will schedule the “Print of the Year” competition for next season.

I personally love the photographic print competitions at the CCC much more so than the DPI competitions, although I take part in both.
There is something magical about taking the digital data from the camera, manipulating it in Light Room and/or Photo Shop and then printing or having it printed to give something tangible that you can pick up and admire.
Then there is the mounting which elevates the photograph to another level followed by the judging where one’s hopes and expectation are crushed by a score of just 7.
Never mind, you still have your beautiful mounted photographs that you can hang on a wall at home.

Perhaps, in this difficult time though we could consider having the print competition judged as DPIs. Sacrilege, I know!
If we did that, we could stick with the current programme dates and have more virtual meetings which would be good for club morale as it keeps our photography interest going at this difficult time.
Additionally, this allows us to have two more rounds of competition that we were expecting rather than the one that is now being proposed.
Then in September 2020, we could open the new season with a clean slate rather than being held back by last season’s programme.

Perhaps, Council could contemplate this option if they haven’t done so already.
I also wonder how members might feel about the proposal?

Kind regards,
Iggy

[davidb]

Perhaps, in this difficult time though we could consider having the print competition judged as DPIs. Sacrilege, I know!

Count me out of that.

Personally, I would prefer that the Print competitions for this year be voided and allowing members to re-present their prints afresh from September.

[Mike Farley]

After next week's DPI competition, one of the tasks for Council will be to decide whether it is worthwhile to continue running meetings via videoconference and, if so, the agenda for those meetings. Which is a very clear message that support by members for next week's meeting will be crucial if they are to continue.

Council has already discussed print competitions. As previously said, videoconference is not a suitable way to run them but we will aim complete the two outstanding rounds early in the new season. The low volume of entries means that it is practical to hold both on the same evening. We will also schedule the Print of the Year in the new season as well.

[Mike Farley]

The intent of a company doesn't stop mistakes from happening. Security involves limiting the potential impact of mistakes, and everyone has a choice of where their line of convenience/risk is. Mine involves never sharing account details.

As you say, we all have different levels of what is acceptable. Personally, I doubt whether anyone considers me important enough to be interested in my data, however it is obtained. The exception is payment card information, but that is not at risk with the Zoom add-on.

That's good to hear - since it can work in that manner then it's a viable option, and I will attempt to use it.
(It appears Firefox is supported fine, other than for microphone use which is only necessary for presenting.)

Lack of a microphone function is OK for a competition, but there might be other occasions when you will want to participate. For example, asking a question of someone who is presenting. Once again, it is your choice.

[Iggy]

Council has already discussed print competitions. As previously said, videoconference is not a suitable way to run them but we will aim complete the two outstanding rounds early in the new season.
The low volume of entries means that it is practical to hold both on the same evening. We will also schedule the Print of the Year in the new season as well.

Thank you Mike.
That's great.
Iggy

[Iggy]

Hello Mike,
This morning, working from my Desktop at home, I took part in a U3A Photographic Group Zoom Webinar, the first one they have organised.
I joined the U3A Photographic Group this year, primarily to try and improve my Light Room capabilities.

U3A opted for the free Zoom application that provides 40 min sessions. U3A booked two 40 min sessions 20 mins apart.
As it transpired, three of us did a third session within 3 or 4 mins of the second session closing.
They are considering purhasin a lease at £12 a month.

Most of us just entered the required details after logging on the Zoom homepage and did not specifically download the Zoom software application.
Zoom provided me with an ID number.

The U3A Zoom chairperson had sent out RSVPs that contained the Meeting ID number to the 15 members.
However on replying, the invitation email disappeared from the Inbox leaving us without the Meeting ID number.
Only a few who had had a run through previously were initially able to log in.
In the end once the Zoom Meeting number and meeting Pass word were circulated again, we all logged in some half an hour later.

We all had our computer video cam & microphones switched on.
There were small images of all of us on the top part of the screen.
When a person spoke he/she automatically became a large image.
We were able to show some images on a set topic and talk about them on Zoom.
Images in Light Room did not succeed in being viewed while those on the Desktop did.
As we got more familiar with Zoom, it worked pretty well.
It is easy to use.

Looking forward to the 4th CCC DPI Zoom Webinar competition on Wednesday 1st April.

Regards,
Iggy

[Mike Farley]

I have had an e-mail from the Surrey Photographic Association reporting on an online DPI competition run by Richmond and Twickenham PS a few days ago. The approach they took was very similar to that our club has been thinking of doing.

This is how I envisage our evening will go on Wednesday:

• 7:45 pm - Meeting will open - participants' microphones will be enabled so that people can talk to each other
• 8:00 pm - Meeting starts - participants' microphones will be disabled except for Chairman and Judge
• Interval - after Standard and Intermediate classes have been judged. Participants' microphones enabled.
• Advanced Class judging - participants' microphones disabled as previously
• End of evening - Closing comments, after which participants' microphones enabled for contributions

This is very much an experiment and we might make changes for future meetings depending on our experience on the night. Microphones will be disabled during the judging to ensure that no extraneous noise adversely affects the audio quality. Enabling microphones at different stages will allow participants to address the meeting but that will only work if only one person is speaking at a time. We will see how that works out, but it is the closest we can get to allowing members to talk to each other as would happen at a conventional meeting.

Instructions for using Zoom will be published shortly. Invitations to videoconferences will be issued via e-mail which will contain a link to join the meeting. It will be easier if the e-mail can be opened on the device participants will use. By default, invitations will be sent to the e-mail address held by the club. If anyone wishes to use a different address, let me know via e-mail or forum PM. Unless requested differently, these alternate e-mail addresses will only be used for Zoom videoconferences.

There will be two test sessions this coming Monday and Tuesday, both at 6:30 pm, to allow members to test that the device they intend to use to access the videoconference is configured correctly. I recommend that members use the second event as a fallback to check any changes made after the first one.