Birds On Sticks

General discussion and anything that isn't covered by the other categories.
Mike Farley
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Birds On Sticks

Postby Mike Farley » Thu 29 Nov 2018, 09:35

With Ann Healey coming next Wednesday to talk to us about distinctions, I thought that I would bring the " 'Un-official' PAGB and Other Distinctions Advice Group" Facebook page to people's attention. The most recent PAGB assessment was held at Pontefract a few days ago and it seems to have stirred up some controversy. Among those posting their successful panels, there have also been some questions about the pass rates at the event, especially at the D and M levels. None of the applicants at M were successful and only 12 out of 35 gained awards at D. There have been questions about whether the judges were marking too harshly, although I was not present and cannot comment. Rod Wheelans says that he chairs every PAGB assessment and one of his roles is to ensure consistency across the board.

One of those making comments is someone who failed to achieve the MPAGB grade, despite having a panel of prints each of which had achieved considerable success elsewhere. Another person has commented on the prevalence of "bird on stick" type images amongst the higher scoring shots. Hence the title of this post. While such work undeniably takes a lot of skill and time to achieve, I do wonder whether it represents an approach which is more likely to succeed.

There is no doubt that the PAGB sets high standards and even those attaining the CPAGB level are highly competent photographers. I do, though, question whether the existence of awards and salons pushes camera club photography, especially at the higher levels, in a particular direction. While at the 2018 SPA Inter-club print competition on 24 November, I spoke to a senior judge who said that SPA is aware of this issue and trying to encourage other styles of work. An initiative of which I have been aware for a while and applaud. It does seem to me that people tend to submit what they think judges will like, rather than necessarily pursue their own inclinations. There would appear to be a chicken and egg situation which would take some time to resolve, if at all. Or does the membership of camera clubs consist mainly of those who prefer a particular style of work? It would be interesting to know Ann's views.

This is the link to the Facebook page, which is worthwhile reading for anyone interested in the distinction process:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/photodi ... s/?fref=nf
Regards

Mike Farley
(Visit my website and blog - www.mikefarley.net)
Rose
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Re: Birds On Sticks

Postby Rose » Thu 29 Nov 2018, 10:37

Oner of our members was awarded her D at Pontefract - her images had achieved multiple acceptances at salons & exhibitions (she's just been awarded BPE3*) but scored just under the threshold to be successful. However, they were reviewed and she got through, as were two others, so the total achieving D was 15 in the end. But one of her friends didn't get it despite all her images having gold medals and ribbons awarded nationally and internationally - she was told they were 'on the wrong paper'. Apparently sport and nature did very well, mono and nudes bombed big time.... and dogs were popular.
Rose
Mike Farley
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Re: Birds On Sticks

Postby Mike Farley » Thu 29 Nov 2018, 13:17

Rose wrote:Oner of our members was awarded her D at Pontefract - her images had achieved multiple acceptances at salons & exhibitions (she's just been awarded BPE3*) but scored just under the threshold to be successful. However, they were reviewed and she got through, as were two others, so the total achieving D was 15 in the end.

My information about the number of passes came from a comment made by a "Gary Jenkins" on the Facebook page on 26 November. The figure I gave was for prints; 10 out of 13 PDI submissions were successful at D apparently. Without knowing whether your colleague at Mid-Somerset opted for Prints or PDI nor how the review process works, the totals might already include them. I would have thought any review would require the involvement of the assessors and could only be done on the day, for prints especially.

In the latest issue of PAGB News, 12 successful print candiates at D are pictured. There are fewer PDI applicants shown, but they would not have to be present at the assessment whereas those with prints would be more likely to attend.

http://www.pagbnews.co.uk/sites/default ... 202018.pdf

Rose wrote:..... she was told they were 'on the wrong paper'.

Given the figures above for the successful print and PDI applications, that sounds like an argument for the latter. It removes a variable from the equation.

Rose wrote:Apparently sport and nature did very well, mono and nudes bombed big time.... and dogs were popular.

One of the issues I have with the PAGB distinctions in particular, is that many of the high scoring images tend to have an overprocessed look which make a good visual impression initially but lack sufficient interest to sustain prolonged viewing. That is not a criticism of the photographers who are biasing their efforts towards an assessment system in which marks are awarded after just a few seconds. The situation is different for the RPS distinctions since they are offered in a range of categories. The photos are shown together as a panel which means that they are on display for longer. However, the assessors are looking at the overall impression made by the panel as well as the individual images. The end result is that one challenge is replaced by another.
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Mike Farley
(Visit my website and blog - www.mikefarley.net)
Rose
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Re: Birds On Sticks

Postby Rose » Thu 29 Nov 2018, 14:11

Frances was one of 15 who were ultimately successful at D in the print category. Yes, those submitting PDIs were more successful - it is clear that the print itself plays a very significant role in the assessment.
At the end of every APM assessment the judges will review as a whole, any applicants' submissions who ended up just under the threshold and the judges may then decide to award the distinction based on overall quality of images. This is a routine part of the process at every assessment and gives people a second chance.
Rose
Mike Farley
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Re: Birds On Sticks

Postby Mike Farley » Thu 29 Nov 2018, 15:01

Thanks for the clarification about the APM review process, Rose.
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Mike Farley
(Visit my website and blog - www.mikefarley.net)
Mike Farley
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Re: Birds On Sticks

Postby Mike Farley » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 08:34

Since I wrote my original post, Christine Widdall has submitted an article which provides a lot of information about the PAGB assessment process. In particular, it is worth noting that those who seek advice before applying for a distinction are more likely to succeed. No doubt Ann Healey will talk about what is available through SPA when she presents tomorrow.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/photodi ... 757551395/
Regards

Mike Farley
(Visit my website and blog - www.mikefarley.net)
Iggy
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Re: Birds On Sticks

Postby Iggy » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 20:35

Thanks Mike for posting the PAGB e-news
http://www.pagbnews.co.uk/sites/default/files/newsletters/en%20219.%2001%20Dec%202018.pdf

There in, I rather like the “portraits in a scene” images of the Arden Photo Group Solihull from their Inter Club Print Championship 2018.

Also helpful discussion on PAGB assessment process.

Hope to see you tomorrow.
Last edited by Iggy on Tue 04 Dec 2018, 23:25, edited 1 time in total.
Mike Farley
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Re: Birds On Sticks

Postby Mike Farley » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 22:27

Hi Iggy

The link that you had in your post does not work. Did you intend to repeat the one I included in my second post?
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Mike Farley
(Visit my website and blog - www.mikefarley.net)
Iggy
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Re: Birds On Sticks

Postby Iggy » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 23:26

Hi Mike,
Yes it was the link that you provided. Corrected now.
Thanks,
Iggy
Mike Farley
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Re: Birds On Sticks

Postby Mike Farley » Wed 05 Dec 2018, 07:38

What struck me about the Arden entry was the lack of variety in the subject matter. It was mainly the environmental portraits you mentioned, some sporting shots and a couple of birds. While I do not blame Arden for submitting images which were likely to do well in such a competitive environment, it does reinforce my argument about club photography being stereotyped. One of Arden's images is featured on the second page of the bulletin and what really struck me about it is how large the woman's hands and forearms are compared to everything else. It looks unnatural and I am not sure that the effect is due to the use of a wide-angle lens.

My favourite from the group is the sumo wrestlers, mainly because it is a bit different from the others and shows less evidence of manipulation in post capture processing.
Regards

Mike Farley
(Visit my website and blog - www.mikefarley.net)

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