Whale Watching

[davidc]

Each to their own of course but I prefer the significant cash saving and think the sense of "satisfaction" buying from a UK dealer is clever marketing that dealers certainly want to continue fostering. Given the warranties are the same, if a non-UK lens fails or needs fixing it costs £15-£20 to ship it back to base internationally vs. probably £10-£15 over here. Outside of warranty the cost to repair a lens will be the same regardless of where you bought it from so is a moot point.

Considering the savings on the lens are several hundred pounds, I'm happy to accept the "risk" of a lens failing or needing returning even 3 or 4 times to get right - I'll still be better off if I buy abroad! I'm looking to buy a reasonable amount of new kit in the near future and I've compared buying it from UK camera shops. The difference buying from overseas means I can get at least one and potentially two extra lenses for the same money. Not to be sneezed at.

Sorry, this appears to have mutated into a UK vs international discussion on where to buy camera kit!

[Mike Farley]

Each to their own of course but I prefer the significant cash saving and think the sense of "satisfaction" buying from a UK dealer is clever marketing that dealers certainly want to continue fostering.

The reasons for buying from a UK dealer are more practical than anything else.

• The contract of purchase is under UK law, which can make it easier to resolve any issues.
• Delivery is quicker for items purchased by mail order.
• If anything does go wrong and the equipment has to be repaired under warranty, it should be away for a shorter period.

Considering the savings on the lens are several hundred pounds, I'm happy to accept the "risk" of a lens failing or needing returning even 3 or 4 times to get right - I'll still be better off if I buy abroad!

Whenever I have investigated buying from abroad, the savings have never been quite as much as that, especially when import duty and VAT are taken into consideration. I see that Onestop Digital (along with others) offers to reimburse these charges if they are applied by HMRC, although I do not know exactly how this works. It might be that they are taking the risk of duty being applied by customs when the package enters the UK rather than the customer. One method by which they can reduce this risk is by marking the item as a "gift", which is illegal. If this is the case and HMRC catches on, they will hold the recipient liable and could prosecute. HMRC also keeps a list of recent equipment on which UK duty has been paid, so I can foresee a scenario such as this:

• Item is bought from a foreign dealer who offers to reimburse any import fees applied by HMRC.
• Item fails and is returned to non UK supplier for repair.
• This time, HMRC checks item on its return to the UK and applies import fees.
• Foreign dealer says tough, as they have held to to their end of the deal.

These are definitely things I would check before making a commitment to buying from abroad.

I'm looking to buy a reasonable amount of new kit in the near future and I've compared buying it from UK camera shops. The difference buying from overseas means I can get at least one and potentially two extra lenses for the same money. Not to be sneezed at.

Let us know about your experiences, as I am sure that people would be interested. I know that modern kit tends to be very reliable, but you might be surprised how much variation there can be in performance of supposedly identical lenses. Just look at some of Roger Cicala's posts on LensRentals when he compares batches of lenses. I cannot find a link to one of his "group" tests, but this gives an idea of the the issues which can occur.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/11 ... -spec-lens

Sorry, this appears to have mutated into a UK vs international discussion on where to buy camera kit!

It is equally germane to know where to source kit as well as what to purchase. It would help if the manufacturers had more of a level playing field when it comes to setting prices in each of their markets across the globe.

[Mike Farley]

A quick Google after I submitted my last post came up with a couple of articles from Roger Cicala about camera and lens performance variation.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2011/10 ... -variation

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/09 ... rfect-lens

I also found this 50 mm lens group test in which sample variation for several different brands is shown. The Zeiss 50 f/2 might be a good lens, with even a poor copy outperforming its competitors, but I was surprised at just how much difference there was between the worst and best examples.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01 ... m-shootout

Those who are unaware of Roger Cicala should know that he does the photographic community a great service with his various analyses of camera equipment. A self confessed gearhead, he enjoys testing lenses, which includes taking them apart to see how they are made and how well they work. He founded Lens Rentals and through them has access to many different samples of the same products, which makes his contributions unique to the best of my knowledge.

For anyone interested in finding the best UK prices for camera gear, I have always found Camera Price Buster to be useful. In addition to providing prices, it also gives details of various discounts and offers which are available from suppliers and manufacturers at any given time.

http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/

[davidc]

Each to their own of course but I prefer the significant cash saving and think the sense of "satisfaction" buying from a UK dealer is clever marketing that dealers certainly want to continue fostering.

The reasons for buying from a UK dealer are more practical than anything else.

• The contract of purchase is under UK law, which can make it easier to resolve any issues.
• Delivery is quicker for items purchased by mail order.
• If anything does go wrong and the equipment has to be repaired under warranty, it should be away for a shorter period.

Aside from the law issue, which I've not encountered, I've experienced exactly the opposite with onestop - I ordered the canon s100 from them (linking back to the original underwater photography thread) and their courier had it to me the following afternoon. Hong Kong > UK in one day. I've bought kit from the UK and it spends longer sitting in mail warehouses than that! And that is standard onestop shipping, not express. Indeed I doubt, with those times, you could get "more express"

The returns issue has been encountered by family and friends who have used onestop before and in both cases they've seen impressive fast & professional responses/return times. I genuinely didn't believe I'd get a camera I ordered next day when it's shipped from the other side of the planet but it turns out it's the norm rather than any specially luck for me.

HMRC Stuff - these are definitely things I would check before making a commitment to buying from abroad.

Agree 100% and I did before buying my S100. No import duty was charged. However I've also again had the same friends and family who had to pay charges when the item first arrived and another case when it was returned from repair. In this case, onestop promise to repay the fee so all you do is pay, scan the invoice and mail them. Both people I know had the money back in a few hours.

I suspect the onestop approach is that they make such a profit selling stuff to the UK at prices the rest of the world pays they can afford the odd item lost in transit or the occasional import duty charge.

Another close family member has bought several camera bodies and at least half a dozen lenses and not once been charged import duty. While you could argue that this is morally wrong and we are ethically obliged to pay import duty and not break the law, bear in mind if you've ever bought something while on holiday and not paid duty on it you've done exactly the same thing. Or sold something on ebay and not paid the tax on it... personally, I resent the absurd golden-island tax we're obliged to pay so I personally don't have a problem using these services.

Let us know about your experiences, as I am sure that people would be interested.

I've been saving for quite a while and I'm considering the following kit - by no means nailed on, and I'm open to other suggestions - but so far I'm looking at buying -

Canon 6D
24-105 f4 (or 24-70 f2.8, not sure yet)
17-40 f4
100-400 - however given the new 150-600 seems to be better, I may get this instead but it's about the same price.

If I bought this from a reputable UK dealer (just priced up on wex photographic) that comes to £3500. Yes, I've been saving a while, ever since I got my 550d and loved it! When I bought my 550D + 18-55 + 55-250 starter kit from wex when I started photography three years ago it took a week and a half to arrive!

Buying the same kit from onestop is under £3000. If something fails in the warranty period - which is the same duration as UK kit - I can send it back to onestop at a cost of about £20 and the return postage is free. So I'll probably get the new sigma 50mm art lens and a fisheye to make it to the same amount or get those later and show the wife how I've saved us £500

[Rose]

I bought my 100-400 lens second hand. It was in pretty much mint condition and I paid just under £900 for it. There are a number of reputable UK retailers who carry used equipment and it's worth considering.

[Mike Farley]

I bought my 100-400 lens second hand. It was in pretty much mint condition and I paid just under £900 for it. There are a number of reputable UK retailers who carry used equipment and it's worth considering.

Good tip, Rose. The only note of caution I would add about the 100 - 400 lens is that it has a reputation for seizing up of the ball bearings which allow the trombone zooming action. As secondhand goods have a more limited warranty than new, the provisions of the Sale of Goods Act in particular, there could be an expensive repair bill in the offing if the lens has had extensive use.

[Mike Farley]

The reasons for buying from a UK dealer are more practical than anything else.

• The contract of purchase is under UK law, which can make it easier to resolve any issues.
• Delivery is quicker for items purchased by mail order.
• If anything does go wrong and the equipment has to be repaired under warranty, it should be away for a shorter period.

Aside from the law issue, which I've not encountered, I've experienced exactly the opposite with onestop - I ordered the canon s100 from them (linking back to the original underwater photography thread) and their courier had it to me the following afternoon. Hong Kong > UK in one day. I've bought kit from the UK and it spends longer sitting in mail warehouses than that! And that is standard onestop shipping, not express. Indeed I doubt, with those times, you could get "more express"

The returns issue has been encountered by family and friends who have used onestop before and in both cases they've seen impressive fast & professional responses/return times. I genuinely didn't believe I'd get a camera I ordered next day when it's shipped from the other side of the planet but it turns out it's the norm rather than any specially luck for me.

Impressive service, which goes a long way to mitigating the risk of dealing with a foreign company. I might look more carefully at Onestop Digital when I am next considering a major purchase. If a package is intercepted by customs when it enters the country, there could well be a delay, though.

HMRC Stuff - these are definitely things I would check before making a commitment to buying from abroad.

Agree 100% and I did before buying my S100. No import duty was charged. However I've also again had the same friends and family who had to pay charges when the item first arrived and another case when it was returned from repair. In this case, onestop promise to repay the fee so all you do is pay, scan the invoice and mail them. Both people I know had the money back in a few hours.

The other occasion when you might end up paying duty on camera goods is should you get stopped by customs when returning from a visit abroad. That's something else which I would also check with Onestop to see if they would cover such a situation, which could occur a year or two down the line from the purchase date. Alternatively, issues could arise if you are moving to another country and cannot prove that tax has been paid in your country of origin. Maybe not significant risks, but they should still be considered as part of the buying decision.

I suspect the onestop approach is that they make such a profit selling stuff to the UK at prices the rest of the world pays they can afford the odd item lost in transit or the occasional import duty charge.

Onestop is profiting mainly from the fact that buyers are not having to pay import duty and/or VAT on goods which it sells, although the disparity between manufacturers' prices in different markets will also be a factor. I would not be surprised if the import duty guarantee accounts for slightly higher prices than other reputable HK based sellers.

Another close family member has bought several camera bodies and at least half a dozen lenses and not once been charged import duty. While you could argue that this is morally wrong and we are ethically obliged to pay import duty and not break the law, bear in mind if you've ever bought something while on holiday and not paid duty on it you've done exactly the same thing. Or sold something on ebay and not paid the tax on it... personally, I resent the absurd golden-island tax we're obliged to pay so I personally don't have a problem using these services.

Citizens are legally, rather than ethically/morally, obliged to pay all taxes due, on pain of the state doing unpleasant things to them if they don't. Equally, the state has a duty to collect all relevant taxes to ensure that the taxation burden is equitably spread across all its citizens according to their means. So I am disappointed that HMRC is apparently letting so many packages into the country uninspected. The recipients might well be making some savings, but I suspect that those who gain most are Onestop, which is benefitting from HMRC's slackness. I am not sure what the legal position is when HMRC fails to impose relevant duties and taxes. Is the recipient still required to inform HMRC or is it sufficient that the goods have been through customs and it is assumed all import charges have been correctly levied? As already described, it does not stop HMRC having a second bite at the cherry if the opportunity arises.

If you sell unwanted personal goods on eBay or elsewhere, no tax is due even if you do make a profit. It's when you acquire goods with the intent to resell that HMRC will start getting interested unless you declare it as the profit from such dealing is defined as income.

I've been saving for quite a while and I'm considering the following kit - by no means nailed on, and I'm open to other suggestions - but so far I'm looking at buying -

Canon 6D
24-105 f4 (or 24-70 f2.8, not sure yet)
17-40 f4
100-400 - however given the new 150-600 seems to be better, I may get this instead but it's about the same price.

I found this on the HMRC website while researching my response:

"If the value of the goods is over £2,000, the recipient will be sent a form C88 'Single Administrative Document' to complete and return to the postal depot before the package can be delivered."

It looks as though it would be best to order your equipment in a couple of batches, or even individually, rather than all at once.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/post/paying-tax.htm#1